Issues discussed were:
A. Reworking the scripts. A vote was done that moved to allow seeking of outside sources to help get the scripts done.
B. Web Site threat made by TimF.
C. Op scheduling
Steve starts the meeting with the Traditions.
Steve says, "looks like we don't have the minutes available on the website yet. They'll be posted at ...http://slaaonline.org/minute.html soon, I suppose. What do we need to discuss tonight?"
Vicki and CudBme raise their hands.
Steve hands floor to Vicki, and Vicki shares, "I would like to discuss making new scripts."
Steve hands floor to CudBme, and CudBme shares, "I would like to hear about how the web site is coming along and what is being done about it."
Steve hands floor to Eric, and Eric shares, "Did you all get my emails?"
Steve says, "Regarding the website and intellectual property? Eric S?"
Eric says, "My window keeps jumping around, and I cannot read the last few
lines. Any way to fix that?"
CudBme says, "hit the monitor?" (and smirks)
Steve says, "Install mIRC."
Susan laughs at CudBme.
Eric says, "Yes" then smiles.
Steve says, "Are you Eric S?"
Circe says, "Use microsoft agent to read it to you"
Eric says, "Yes"
Steve says, "Are you referring to the emails about the website and intellectual
Eric says, "Yes, emails about copyrights, and what former webmaster wants."
Steve says, "I presume that most of us received them, yes. So, tonight's agenda.."
Jameela raises hand
Steve says, "discuss where we are on scripts, and how we get the job done
quickly talk about the measures we've taken to protect the website yes, jameela?"
Jameela says, "I just wanted to ask that the scheduling of ops for meeting be reworked the current one isnt accurate."
Steve says, "okay, that's three items."
Eric says, "How do I turn on Microsoft agent to read it to me? I am behind about three to six lines most of the time. SOrry."
Steve says, "number one.... scripts. (if anyone can help eric, please pm him) Jay has stepped down as chair of the scripts committee Jon volunteered to take his place (after a bit of arm-twisting) but we've still made little progress as most members of the scripts committee have a significant learning curve to learn mirc scripting who would like to add to where we are with scripts?"
Jameela raises hand, Steve hands floor to Jameela and she says, "so far the scripts committee has met 3 times our regular attendees are Jon, Susan, Jay, Rob and myself, and none of us know programming we are in dire need of assistance with it. We have willing volunteers but no guidance we are trying to learn as much as we can but im afraid it may not be enough in relation to the need for ops to have scripts. I am requesting anyone that knows programming or if u know someone who does to please assist us with it. I'm willing to learn an others are but we cant do this from thin air we've narrowed down the basic files that run the scripts but so far all were doing is trying to learn. No progress yet. Susan and I were talking tonight and she proposed just distributing the texts and teaching ops how to play them in the room in the meantime, until we can get more help."
VJ & CudBme raise hands.
Steve hands floor to Vicki
Vicki says, "I only knew of one meeting and i didnt get to attend that one. But I'm very interested in the scripts but I didnt think i knew enough to 'redo; them so I asked a programmer for help because I didnt see of any progress. I was going over the texts to see what was necessary but since you guys have done that and IF you are willing to receive HELP from outside slaa it can be done and on a pretty quick time scale. Its essential that these scripts get completed and the old ones that have the bad 'coding' be deleted from peoples computers that is what was discussed months ago and decided on. I also recommend HIGHLY that with any dissemination of scripts there be a training committee because not only do people just run a script wiht a meeting they have to know what to do to keep the meeting running smoothly and so we need people to work with new OPs to train them for a given time."
Steve says, "thanks Vicki, please share cudbme"
CudBme says, "I was discussing the progress with Jameela the other night about the scripts and the web site. My first concern was that there is no "Project" sheet.. that delineates what is to happen how BIG or small each job would be who is assigned what skills each subproject involved "added knowledge" and what can be taken care of "now" with little or no knowledge except elbow grease to delete outdated materials etc. The point is.. there is a BIIIIG pie.. and it needs to be cut to pieces.. with an overall job sheet to show who is working on what within these committees and what progress on each "smaller" piece is being "chomped" on and progress made. As far as outside work is concerned for me. I kinda figure some of the Code can be checked for "backdoor" type of stuff and general structure. However since these are matters of SLAA members that the content needs to remain "edited" by SLAA members and overseen by committee members that are accountable to the group at least the officers to have some sort of hmmmmm cohesiveness with the group charter?? Those are my thoughts on these matters. Some of it may work." (smiles)
Eric raises hand.
Steve says, "Seems we need three things. One sec, Eric. 1st, better Communications. I suggest a weekly email to all ops reminding of upcoming scripts meeting and perhaps an occasional announcement at meetings 2nd, better project management to organize us and distribute the work efficiently and third, technical skill perhaps from our members or perhaps from outside. Please share, Eric"
Eric says, "Hi, I think there is a more serious issue"
Jeri says, "Hi Eric"
Eric continues, "Is there a lawyer in this group? This pertains to emails I sent out."
CharlesC comments, "he plays one on TV", then says, "sorry".
Steve says, "We'll get to the website and intellectual property after we have a plan for scripts, eric"
Eric says, "I think copyright issues primary and secondary are a real issue that needs discussion. Scripts wont matter if this group gets sued."
Vicki raises hand.
Steve says, "Let's get back to the scripts discussion."
Eric says, "As I said in my email, everyone involved in this committee is liable for copyright violations."
VJ says, "Openings and closings are read in every meeting in slaa."
Steve says, "are we fundamentally in agreement with my three points? Please share, Vicki."
Vicki says, "Just that steve the scripts only contain info that is read in every meeting in slaa face to face there is no copyright on that material in meetings."
Jeri says, "thanks Vicki."
Steve says, "Agreed, and it's not particualarly secret. Question is, do we have the talent in our group to do the job fairly quickly. I am capable, but a bit over-committed and I don't want too much control."
CudBme offers to consider helping in structuring a plan.
Circe raises Hand, Steve hands floor to Circe. Circe says, "I think we got ourselves into this mess and we can get ourselves out of the mess if we pull together. My thoughts were to have each of us take a few lines of scripts and decipher them so we know exactly what we have and then come back together and discuss but this will take time for me anyway, because I am slowly learning about scripts and there is a lot to learn but this is a great learning experience the group needs to decide. If we want speed, or throuhgness and a great opportunity which may take time if we want speed, perhaps we should seek outside assistance."
CudBme raises hand, Steve hands floor. CudBme says, "I tend to agree with Susan; however, I feel the real oppotunity is in the service. The working with others. Not for money, not for the SUV, but to learn to build projects that will directly benefit us. Now, there is a line where technical expertise can truly help us from tripping on our own trips. So, I would suggest that small groups of two (2) be set up to take on pieces after it being divided up which parts are workable with "reasonable" technical stature and who is volunteering and also that we use "mIRC" channels where code is explained and others help each other.. there must be a site where they work on that even perhaps here in this server.. like Mistie and them??whatever and the more complex parts that could kill the project be farmed out to pros. That could expedite those "techically Overwhelming" parts that will just keep everyone depressed and not making progress. We need to differentiate these parts and get on it."
Charles and Vicki raise hands. Charles is given the floor first. Charles says, "I wonder if the technical aspects of this project could be compared with say, book binding! I'm fairly certain none of us is a book binder. So, if we wrote something like an SLAA Online Handbook we'd send it out to be bound even though it could be a marvelous learning experience in order to expedite the service to the newcomer. Now, it appears that a very few of us write code. So, aside from prohibitive cost, is there really a barrier to us farming this out?"
Steve passes floor to Vicki and she says, "the person i talked to would do this for free and would probably be more than willing to teach the rest of you here what you want to know. It's a channels person who helped us detect the fallibility of the scripts to begin with. So to reinvent the wheel is fine and dandy but the problem is that the scripts being used are problematic. We are endangering our ops by using scripts from a guy who can typically come in here under aliases and get on peoples computers. Do you want to be responsible for that? I dont. And we cant get any new OPs to fill slots because we have no scripts to give them. So I cant see why getting help to help us would cause any problems."
CudBme and Marabel raise hands, Steve passes floor to CudBme.
CudBme says, "As I see it, the technical side of the scripts are very small and certainly could be done by a channels operator. I find that to be no problem at all. I personally feel the area of the content in the scripts is the area that should be edited by SLAA members. We are not up for show. My two cents."
Steve passes floor to Marabel, and says, "Susan next".
Marabel says, "I think that what VJ suggested to have that person to show us how it's done would be far more prudent."
Marabel continues, "Not only because of expense, but because we need to be able to have people available once we have things going to share what we have learned. Just as we have rotation of service and share what we learned in our TS positions. A lot of what some of us current ops know has been handed down from op to op.
It's just a matter of having a formal committee and volunteers, that's all. I also believe that the website issue is a far more pressing issue and that it is shortsighted to not consider that as a "top burner" issue. Those are my thoughts. Thanks."
Gina agrees with Marabel.
Steve passes floor to Susan.
Susan says, "I just want to say that i really like Vicki's idea and don't have a problem with outside help."
Charles raises hand, and Steve passes floor to Charles.
Charles says, "May I make a motion?"
Steve says, "surely"
Charles says, "Or is there one on the floor? OK. I make the motion that: SLAA Online Group empowers the webmaster and scripts committee to seek whatever resources which are needed, inside or outside SLAA, to create new scripts."
Jameela seconds the motion.
Steve says, "motion and 2nd on the floor."
Those voting are Could-be-me Toni Lynn Marabel Steve Vicki CharlesC Susan Eric Gina Jameela
Vote is unanimous. Motion carries.
Steve says, "Next issue, web site."
Eric raises hand.
Steve says, "Will you bring us up to speed, jameela? Let's hear the webmaster and cowebmaster before we introduce new discussion."
Jameela says, "On the status of the web site?"
Steve says, "Yes, please."
Jameela says, "OK, so far since the elections weve been able to change hosts for the site and successfully transfered it.
Vicki says, "yea!"
Jameela continues, "There are no stylesheets and the forum is still down but were working on getting that up with Steve's help <smiles> and also weve been able to update it we are considering reorganizing it currently so it is user friendly and Cud suggested that we have a sort of contest for redesign for all the creative ppl out there to have a chance at submitting a new design and the group can vote on their favortie."
Steve says, "Cool."
Jameela says, "Am I forgetting anything Susan?"
Susan says, "No. Oh one thing."
Jameela says, "Susan has been thoroughly searching and fixing broken links and errors."
Susan says, "We haven't heard one peep out of Tim lately and we haven't gotten anymore letters from the server or domain registrar. It seems they were happy with our response."
Vicki says, "Yeah."
Susan continues, "So for now, the crises seems to have been averted."
Steve says, "and we moved the domain to another registar to insure that tim wouldn't hijack it. jameela and susan and toni and i all have access to the passwords and our email addresses were used as domain contacts as to tim's silly assertion that he holds the copyright. We've debunked it thouroughly."
CharlesC says, "Wow"
Vicki says, "Cool"
Eric says, "I disagree"
Steve says, "because both our site and his have links to email@example.com not firstname.lastname@example.org please share your perspective, eric."
Eric says, "Copyrights have nothing to with who has it. It is more about who created it. All of the articles on this website are copyrighted."
Jameela raises hand.
Eric continues, "Who has the permissions? They need to be in writing! The website itself is also copyrighted according to an online lawyer."
Eric continues, "Tim is not opposed to giving copyright transfer and permissions, which he has in WRITING. He wants several things."
Vicki asks, "Are you Tim?"
Eric continues, "First. Fix links."
Susan says, "We are"
Eric continues, "Second. My suggestion, not his. pay him $24 for his attempt to keep site up and running. I am making a motion to do the above. Tim will then transfer all copyrights."
Eric continues, "If this is not done, lawsuit is in the works, whether for right or wrong, all are liable."
Jameela raises hand. Steve passes floor to Jameela and says "Then we'll vote".
Jameela says, "hmm where do i start I'm not a lawyer nor am i equipped or educated in law but as a photographer i know a few things about intellectual property. 1. The content that is currently on our website is copyrighted to slaa not Tim
I have visited slaa fws website and its a copy word for word which we are entitled to use on our website as a fellowship from them secondly so is the logo it has the copyright right on it third anything Tim posted on the site as an announcement or otherwise was created as a donation of services since we are a non profit organization anything created under a company or group that was under the pretense as a donation is subject to work for hire clause since there was no copyright logo on it of tim explicitly saying its property of tim it falls under that category and lastly since we arent making any profits from the website in any way there is no infringement to SLAA not Tim and arent subject to damages that my 2 cents on copyright."
CharlesC says, "Call the question."
Steve says, "Okay, motion on the floor, seconded"
Motion is defeated.
Steve says, "any further discusion on the website before we move to item three?"
Eric raises hand. Steve passes floor to Eric.
Eric says, "Does anyone have any interest in consulting a lawyer about this?"
Steve says, "No need, in my opinion."
Eric says, "Pesonally, if this is the vote and final conclusion, I have to resign from the committee, due to liability involved."
Steve says, "anyone else care to address eric's question?"
CudBme says, "ponders it... for good sense practice."
Steve says, "okay, let's move on .... item three." Steve then reiterates Jameelas statement: "I just wanted to ask that the scheduling of ops for meeting be reworked the current one isnt accurate."
Donnatella raises hand. Steve passes floor to Donnatella.
Donnatella says, "Vicki and I discussed this issue today. I admit it is a much needed chore and I intend to begin tomorrow at sunrise *salute*. It's no big deal doing the scheduling, we'll get it together lickety split."
Steve says, "Any new business?"
Charles raises hand. Steve hands floor to Charles.
Marabel also raises hand.
CharlesC says, "My name is Charles and I am a sex addict. A member of our group was recently banned by the officers of SLAA Online...and I see that the ban has been lifted. Is that a permanent lifting?"
Steve says, "Please enlighten us, Jameela. Jameela lifted the room ban, but not the Cstar ban."
Jameela says, "I just undid what my machine just autodid for some reason. I just took it off slaa2."
Charles says, "Do we need to lift the cstar ban?"
Jameela says, "We haven't yet convened on that issue or made any decisions."
Charles continues, "I mean does the cstar ban need to be lifted for the room ban to be lifted as well? (tech question)"
Steve says, "yes, both need to be lifted for ket to be allowed into this room."
CharlesC says, "OK"
Susan says, "OK, now what?"
CharlesC says, "I believe Ket is attempting to enter now"
Susan says, "I would like to hear what she has to say, can we let her in?"
Steve says, "Fine by me. But can we adjourn the regular business meeting first?"
Majority say "no".
CharlesC says, "All it takes is a motion actually"
Steve says, "our guidelines call for behavior discussions to involve only ops and the people directly involved."
CharlesC says, "I move to adjourn."
Meeting closes with the serenity prayer.